Friday, January 16, 2009

Detailed World Map leak!

Can someone figure out the travel distance to get from one side of the map to the other?
Thanks in advance

CLick here for higher quality version

Edit: the clouds im assuming are there to tell you thee current im guessing this was taking from the weather map in-game.


Ed said...


Carl said...

Thanks awesome.

Thanks for the leak. This game is gonna rock hopefully :D

Potato said...


What's with the annoying little clouds and stuff?

Carl said...

We need rain clouds and clouds with thunder, etc.

And snow too of course :D

There's my beta feedback

Harley said...

"New Flayed Elf"

Lmao! Best starter town name hands down.

Andrew said...

Wow, sweet! Great job.

James said...

Yikes. This looks bad.

On betaleaks, leakreader said, "I heard someone say it takes a half hour to run from a capitol city to another."

Assuming it does take 30 minutes to run to a capitol, I took the distance between all the capitals (which is pretty similar with some variance) and averaged them. Then took the distance of the further side of Agon to the left and to the right.

According to simple mathematics, it would take you 1.44407709 hours to run across Agon without obstacles. You can pretty much tell the math is accurate from looking at it because from a capitol to the left side, to the middle (like Shoal), to the right would total a little less than an hour.

Again, this is assuming it does take 30 minutes to reach the capitol.

If you have any other questions on distance I'd be happy to look into it.

BrownSwiss said...

@Potato the clouds are the in game weather effects which you can track on the map.

No said...

James i'm sure he meant from starting city to starting city in the same area. Devs have said it takes from 6-8 hours to get from one side of the map to the other.

James said...

Well, I don't feel so bad for having correctly interpreted a wrongly worded statement.

Dustin Ward said...

can anyone post the Read More info? :(

James said...

Anyways, the time in that case would be 8.60413068 hours or something. Who knows.

Dominic said...

there is no more info on this one Dustin

Dominic said...

I don't think it takes 30 minutes to go from one starter city to another. Someone did an analysis of the Athens video. It took him like 7 minutes to go from one of the orks starter cities to the capital.

I think 30 minutes from a capital city to another is closer to the truth

James said...

@ Dominic

Wow... Silly me. I was using some random quote when I had the video all along...

He stops to fight goblins for a minute or two and then stops for half a second to open up his inventory. Then he also does some of it by mount. Makes it pretty hard to calculate.

But, assuming he could go from a starter city to the Ork capitol in 6 minutes, it means that a trip across Agon would be:
1.79621482 hours

A lot closer to my original calculation. Which makes me think the beta leak quote wasn't off and people really ought to stop putting so much blind faith in the developers who just lie at every stage.

Oh well, think what you will.

Dustin Ward said...

but theres a big f'ing mountain in the way, have you ever tried to go around a mountain? Sure by the way the crow flies it make take 1.7 hours, but hauling your fat ass around the mountain can easily tripple or quadruple the time it takes, simple pie equations, so ya, i'd say 6-8 is closer to the truth

James said...

@ Dustin Ward

I fail to see this large mountain you're talking about. If you mean the black spot in the middle of the map, that's the Watcher Wastes. I see no indication of elevation in the area, nor would expect any since... It's a wasted area.

Even so, assuming you did have to circumnavigate the middle of the map, at the last scale I used, it would take maybe fifteen minutes to get around it. It wouldn't magically add five hours.

Oh well, think what you will.

Dominic said...

I just studied the Athens video. The mini map is exactly like this new detailed map, so it made it easy to calculate.

That first trip took on a mount him 1:14 minutes. I drew it on the new map. Counted the distance in pixels. And then applied across the map.

It would take someone in a mount 37 minutes to cross the main continent. If they ran in a straight line and never stopped.

The question is how much faster is a mount. If a mount is 3 times faster, it would take someone 1 hour and 51 minutes...or 1.85 hours to walk across...sound familiar ;)

Carson said...

So after reading other peoples attempted mathcrafting of the world and them doing HORRIBLY at it ending up with 1 hour to cross Agon I did my own. This is based on this quote

>“I walked from Chopping Necks (westernmost Ork starter town) to the coast to the east over 2 or 3 hours and NOT ONCE was I bored with repetitive landscape. There is almost always a settlement of goblins, freaky bird-men, hivekin, or something going on, and it's on all sides of you. I swam to an island off the coast, then to a second island. In total, the trip took about 4-5 hours one-way. I explored what looked like ~3% of the total map. Do the math! The world is gigantic!”

The black overlay is the initial line I drew from chopping necks, STRAIGHT east until I hit coastline, if he considers the coast he hit the one near the capital then the time to travel Agon will be even longer. For the sake of rounding I'm assuming that it took him 2 hours at WALKING speed, 2 hours being the lowest amount of time he stated, so as such it could actually have taken him longer than that and as such the world could be even larger. Each differently colored line is two hours. Then I just copy pasted that line from the far west all the way across to the east. I ended up with a little more than 4 lines to cross the width of Agon, which is around 8 hours at what he considered walking speed. This gives us a good idea as to the size of the world but of course he or I could be wrong.

snap-san said...

Take a look at how the map is designed, most of the terrain features seem to be contained within identically sized areas of the map. Gives you an idea of how they built it - Probably did several of these small areas and then stitched it all together.

James said...

"So after reading other peoples attempted mathcrafting of the world and them doing HORRIBLY at it"

Lmfao. At least mine is based in math. Not wonderfully colored lines.

"or I could be wrong."


Daniel said...

If you are getting near 2 hours to cross the map when the devs themselves stated that its more like 8 then you'd have to question yourself, these guys aren't like Peter Molyneux they do not lie to us. Carson came the closest to this and at least he posted an actual proof of his work, It makes sense.

Bobby said...

Daniel I think you are bit naive saying they won't lie to us...
I really want the map to be as big as they said it would be but we must be realistic, it will probably turn out smaller than that.

Let's just hope it won't affect the gameplay too much.

Carl said...

"Lmfao. At least mine is based in math. Not wonderfully colored lines."

roflmao, true :)

Nick said...

Carson calculation seem more acurate to me.
If James was true, it would mean that the mini map in the upper right corner would be useless as it would be crossed in something like 1.5 minutes and everything on the map would be clearly visible around the player.

Daniel said...

Math is one thing, bad math is another bro. The quote you are talking about was a misnomer, they were actually referring to distance between a capital and the cities directly around it, NOT the distance between two capitals. Even if you did the math right, you based it on the wrong distance and came out with an incorrect result.

bo said...

I don't care about math, or whether the devs are trustworthy or not. One of the games core features is supporting 10k people on at once. Use some common sense, if the world was crossed in under two hours it would be insanely crowded.

unseenzell said...

umm wrong my friend says the world is huge you cant use the athens vid to caculate it right. i think during the athens vid they used a smaller scale world map for the presentation. my friend is in beta too so heh : )

unseenzell said...

correction we firgured that the minimap is a diffrent scale than the world map this was found out on the main df forums hence proven the under 2 hours wrong and 6 plus hours right.
doesnt help the fact i have conformation from a friend the rough estimates from the devs is right

Ed said...

1) For the beta quotes based analysis:

One thing to keep in mind is that the different estimates from different beta tester sources seem to match.

If you look at Carson's "2 hours from Chopping Necks to the east coast" map, you will realize that each of the 2-hour-equivalent lines is about 4 times as long as the distance between some starting cities and their capitals.

This would make the "30 minute from starting city to capital" and the "2 hours from chopping necks to the east coast" quotes (2 quotes from different sources who are both in beta) consistent with one another!

2) For the video based analysis:

Keep in mind that New Flayed Elf is more than twice as close to its capital than some other starter towns are to their capitals (Valfather's Edge and Onghral), and that the guy in the video does part of the trip on a mount.

So, converting that to walking speed, that could give you a little over 7 minutes between New Flayed Elf and the Ork Capital - say, 9 or 10 minutes (this is the shortest case)... And it would also give you over 20 minutes between Valfather's Edge and the Dwarf Capital, or Onghral and the Alfar Capital (longest cases) which could well be consistent with the "30 minutes" quote from beta testers (who says the tester didn't simply pick the town that is farthest from its capital, by coincidence?)

Bottom line: IMHO, 30ish minutes being the **longest possible distance** between a starter city and its capital seems like an estimate that is consistent with both the Athens video and the "2 hours to coast" quote. No big "DEVZ ARE LYIENG OMG" conspiracy required.

muhko said...

Nice map :D

Karo said...

Ugh, fanboys...

The exact quote from the betaleaks forum was 30 mins from CAPITAL city to CAPITAL city.

The dev quote about the map being 8 hours to traverse says if you WALK it'd take 8 hours. They technically weren't lying. Also how they technically haven't lied plenty of times on the past.

The quote about it taking 2-3 hours to walk from starting city to coast SPECIFICALLY mentions how he was stopped several times by mob spawns and the like - we don't if he moved in a straight line to the coast, we don't know if the 2-3 hours includes time spent killing/backtracking from mobs. He also said he WALKED.

You have VIDEO proof that it takes 6 minutes to walk from a starting city to capital. Even if that starting city is twice as close to it's capital than most (on average it most certainly ISN'T) then that means it takes 12 minutes to travel from starting city to capital.

If you want to believe that the video proof you can see for yourself is fake or modified in some way, go ahead. The facts are there, however, for anyone with half a brain and a pair of eyes.

Karo said...

"So, converting that to walking speed, that could give you a little over 7 minutes between New Flayed Elf and the Ork Capital - say, 9 or 10 minutes (this is the shortest case)"

The 6 minutes was already taking into account the mounted speed. It was shorter than 6 minutes in the video. Please go watch the video.

Zushakon said...

Wicked, can't wait.

Dominic said...

Go watch the full Athens video, start counting once he gets on his mount and starts riding to Flaming skull. Make sure to start at 6:36, since thats when he opens his mini map. The mini map is exactly the same as this new map..just zoomed in more. I followed his path and drew in on the map and counted the pixels. It took him about 1 min 14s.

The orange bar is the distance stretch out in pixels..counting the diagonal pixels as 1.414 pixels (hypotenuse).

Then I copy pasted this orange bar across the map and it took about 33 to completely go across.

I miscounted the orange bars earlier, and it actually would take 40.7 minutes (33 x (1min 14s)) to go across the main Continent. But this is on a mount..going full speed the whole time in a straight line...assuming you never go over hills or around obstacles. In reality it would take longer..probably a lot longer.
We don't know much faster a mount is, so I don't know how long it would take on foot.

Dominic said...

Something else I noticed while looking at the Athens video is that the loading pauses start right at the border of the squares on the map. So each of these squares is like a zone.

Mikolaj said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
James said...

@ Daniel

Considering I'm a physicist, I think I can handle such simple mathematics. Even if the quote was wrong, we have the Athens video. The chances that the world was "shrunk" for the Athens video is just hilariously not likely. They were on the official test servers for it.

So, since I also used the Athens video, we can assume it was right. Well that's not true either, I didn't know what starter city he was in so I just picked one at random. I'll do New Flayed Elf this time...

It came out to 2.6 hours, assuming it would take 6 minutes to walk from NFE to Flaming Skull.

Even if it took 9 minutes to walk the time across Agon would be 3.7 hours.

Now that quote about taking five hours or whatever to reach the coast also mentions he runs into mob village after mob village. It does not say that he ran in a straight line without stopping.

Ed said...

The video's walking segment is useless. You have someone randomly switching from sprinting to jogging to looking around, zig zagging around, and fighting goblins from 2:30 to 6:30.

Then you have the only useable part of the video, which is a 75 second long mounted sequence in which the guy's path is two straight lines at a constant speed, first between some point near the coast north of New Flayed Elf and a bridge, and then he takes a corner at said bridge and rides straight to Flaming Skull.

But of course, you can only conclude the RIDING times around the globe based on a RIDING sequence. Here's a linky of my doing that, for your convenience:

So it seems that you would take 45ish minutes to cross the main continent of Agon in a straight line, on a mount, nonstop.

On foot it could be anywhere from just as fast to three times as slow, who knows...? I'm not making any assumptions based on anything short of a constant speed, in-a-straight-line video sequence with the minimap on, like I just did for the riding speed.

@James: in the video he starts on Metal Heart, but does not walk at a constant speed or in a straight line until he mounts up somewhere north of New Flayed Elf. He also dismounts just outside of Flaming Skull, not inside the town.

James said...

@ Ed

I'm very well aware of what he does in the video as a long, long time ago I said, "Makes it pretty hard to calculate." Regardless, I'm not trying to get a specific number. Just trying to prove that you've all been lied to. And I think I achieved that.

@ Nick

Not sure what the matter with saying you'd cross the mini-map in less than two minutes is. Most of the games I play you can cross it in under twenty seconds, less if you're run buffed.

@ bo

True, if they were even telling the truth about 10,000 users.

@ unseenzell

Of course the mini-map and world map are different scales. When you have two ratios and one with a distance, you can find the distance of the other ratio. Which is what Dominic did. And both he and Ed got similar by-mount values.

Ed said...

Before the nitpickers start nitpicking, yes, I am aware that you can not ride on sea, and that the map canvas is not entirely filled with land. Those measurements are there for reference. ;)

I forgot to include it in the image, but the time from one capital to the next averages at 16 minutes (IN A STRAIGHT LINE, AT RIDING SPEED).

The closest capitals are Orc and Human, and the most isolated capital is the Alfar capital, equally far from Humans and Mirdain.

Bartlebe said...

Darkfall map math.

Serious business.

Ed said...


We got the usual PR lie (which is to be expected), not the blatant AoC type lie. :p

If me and Dominic are anywhere near correct, it would take 3-4 hours to ride a circle along the coast of the main continent and end up back where you started (on a mount, at full speeds, not counting the time to go around smaller obstacles, just following the general shape of the coast).

Then there are the other four continents, which combined add up to about half of the main continent's land mass.

We're still looking at a big world.. even if 8 hours is more like the time it takes you to circle around the coast of the major continent at jogging speed, as opposed to the time it takes to walk across it in a straight line. Isn't that what PR gets paid for, after all? Bending the truth? :p

Dominic said...

Heres is the infamous quote:
"To run from one end to another at regular running speed could take more than 8 hours. This is just an estimate: It could take less or more time depending on your route."

If you were start at the south western most edge of Rubaiyat and walk-swim to the north eastern most island of Yssam, its possible it could take 5 hours or close ...considering swimming is slower, mob spawns you would have to go around to avoid a fight, and the hills and mountains you would have to walk over. But we don't know walking speed compared to mount speed...but it looks considerably slower

8 hours once you fill the world with PKs :o

Carson said...

For the record, they have no PR budget, no marketing, they can't afford to pay someone to lie for them, and these game devs won't lie about a game they make. The quote was talking about running from one end of the continent of Agon to another. The quote about capital cities you're referring to was between a starter city and the capital, not two capitals, they mislabeled it. This is obvious because even in the beta running to the closest capital would be an enemy capital full of beta testers with itchy trigger fingers, you'd get killed before you got near the wall. And the video you're trying to base this on was a horribly low quality video. I realize that the guy I based mine off of was fighting monsters, this is why I used the lowest amount of time to make up for this. The rest of this is just you guys not accepting the fact that the developers aren't lying to us, it seems you are so jaded with games that you can't accept the truth, or you just won't admit you're wrong. Even if you took 30 more minutes per line off of what I came up with to account for monsters even more, you still end up with 6 hours of walking time across the continent of Agon, while your estimates are very far from that. I don't care if you're a physicist, that doesn't mean you don't make mistakes.

Dominic said...

most people, including me, are calculating 40-45 min to cross Agon with unobstructed mount speed. Not walking speed.

Carl said...

Now someone calculate the time to sail around the main continent at 2x mount speed approximately.

And also the time to sail around all the whole world, going on the outside of the 4 large islands.

Dominic said...

I just calculated walking speed using same technique as the mount. I used the portion of the vidoe where the ork walks across the bridge, and then walks up beside the lava stream. These are very rough calculations, but I believe they are definitely good ballpark figures.

Walking speed for both were both about .4 pixels/ per this to the mount speed of .77 pixels per second...and its very same to assume that mounts are about twice the speed of an unmounted character. At least in the Athens video they are.

Which means it takes about an hour and a half to walk across the main continent in a straight line unhindered.

A diagonal measurement from Rubaiyat to Yssam is about 70 of those orange bars which is about 1.44 hours to cross with mount speed in a straight line unhindered (assuming you could walk on water) Walking it would be 2.88 hours, or almost 3 hours. But in reality it would be a lot more.

vegasblackout said...

All of these calculations also assume that the entire landmass is at sea level. Inclines and declines both add significant distance.

Lycanthrope said...

OK, I just walked to the liquor store and back. Let's assume that the Liquor Store represents Agon, and my walking speed represents the mount speed in DF. I stopped to kick the asses of a few goblins - read neighbors - on the way, and climbed that big pine tree and looked around. It took me about 35 minutes. Thus, that's the speed it should take to cross Agon.

That's about as based on what we know as much as anything you guys are saying.

Dominic said...

not really didn't tell us ur pixels per second to the liquor store...your math crafting sucks

wob_be said...

Has anyone else noticed that the entire map is comprised of abouts 34*34 blocks.

Not that this really changes the game but kinda dissapoints me, I swear they said the entire map was man crafter, im assuming it must have been creafted in them small blocks one at a time,

Dominic said...

More then likely it was handcrafting block by block.
This way, multiple people could do their own blocks and then add combine them all together in the end.
It also obvious certain areas where made in a large chunks of blocks. While other area were done one block at a time

bo said...

I hope you all realize pixels are radically different shapes and sizes depening on resolution.

Dominic said...

sure but I used the same resolution for all my tests, so its consistent

it would still show that a mount is about twice the speed of someone walking , regardless of resolution

Chris said...

I layered a grid over the map that fits with the size of the squares. This makes it a little easier to make out all the different squares. Some sections were obviously made with multiple squares though, so there aren't seams everywhere. The grid is 32x32, 1024 squares total. More than half of those are fully water though. Each of the Race Capitols are in the center of a square, and each starter city is in a square adjacent to the capitols. I'd assume that almost no squares have more than one player city or village in them, so assuming that half the total squares are land (500ish) and there are 90-something player city/towns that means roughly every 5 squares has a city/town in it. It's pretty easy to even see some squares that look like they'd have a sweet defensible city right in the center of them, but they could just be mountains or something. It'll be nice when the game comes out to explore every square and mark what points of interest each one has.

wob_be said...

Well once the games out people who like to make guides and walkthroughs might label each block bring up a higher resolution picture and really detail all of importance.

muhko said...

Are there detailed maps for the cities also or are they only visible on the normal minimap

Charlie said...

Would be nice if we could get a tester to find a relatively flat and featureless square, run across it on foot with no sprint and give us the amount of time it takes.

All of this math is useless because the terms of the "experiment" were never laid out.

And to "physicist" that was giving 8 decimal places (LMAO) of precision, I hope you don't do your work in that way. Getting 9 significant figures from one variable with only 1 (maybe 2) significant figures is laughable.

James said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
James said...

@ Charlie

Good thing I lied about being a physicist then? What, are you just taking a class on significant figures now? *Claps* Excuse me for being too lazy to cut off numbers from pasting. It sure would have made a huge difference!

Oh wait, what's that? A leak just came out saying 1.5 hours? Nowai!


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